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Damien Stewart's avatar

Thank you Anne for the variety of podcast episodes of late. Still working through some of them.

Regarding the ICE shooting. I put together my views and assessment of the shooting based on 20 years of being an Australian Police Officer at the state and federal level. I've watch a variety of videos now and each one only strengthens my POV. I have humbly copied it below for anyone who might be interested. If you arm people like soldiers, surely they will operate with a soldiers mindset:

It is extremely clear to me, that the victim was trying to leave the scene. Earlier video showed her waving cars past as she tried to pull out into traffic. She was mindful not to pull out into oncoming traffic. She was in control of her actions. Think about that part for a moment, she was trying to go to her right, and as she is driving on the right hand side of the road (as you do in the USA), she is looking to the left.

The Officer who shot her, in the meantime, placed himself in front of her car...in her blind spot. She's waiting for the traffic to her left to clear before heading out into traffic. Who on earth expects someone to be standing in front of your car in the middle of the road?

We can also see the other Officer at her door trying to pull her door open and get her out of the car, further drawing her attention to the left of her car. With the intensity of the situation, she would have had tunnel vision towards the greatest threat, the guy at her door. Also the guy at the door of the car did not consider her to be of such a threat to pull his service weapon nor any other weapon.

As the traffic clears, she pulls out into traffic to drive away, not realising the officer was standing in front of her car. As a result, she hits him at an incredibly low speed, not causing him any impediment.

As he slides off her bonnet, he pulls his gun and shoots her.

Now there are not two versions of events, this is exactly what happened. What it comes down to is your assessment of whether lethal force was justified at the moment. Lethal force should only be used where lethal force is necessary to stop a threat to either your life as an officer or somebody else's life. Again, this is a judgement that must be made.

It does not appear that once he slid off of the bonnet (the hood for everyone in the USA) of her car that his life nor the life of anyone else was in danger. He also did not appear to have received any injuries let alone life threatening injuries. Does not seem to be reasonable justification here.

The VP of the USA would have us feel sorry for the officer who shot the lady because he was run over by a car some months before receiving 30 stitches. O.K, poor bugger, but why does he keep finding himself in front of moving vehicles? Also, if you are suggesting he reacted the way he did because he had been hit by a car just recently, then he should never be back on the street if his trauma is still so acute. No reasonable excuse here. We don't change our review of lethal force just because one officer has a potential psychological problem.

Many investigations of Police shootings, in Australia at least of recency, have assessed whether, by their actions, Police have induced a lethal scenario that was avoidable had they not taken action they took. As an example - As a Police Officer you choose to enter a house rather than cordon and contain the offender and negotiate a way out of the situation. Upon entry the offender points a gun at you and you shoot them. A court might rule that you should not have entered the house and are therefor responsible for the death of the offender. In this shooting one might ask why the officer placed himself in front of a moving vehicle (i.e, she was trying to drive away).

Lets roll the video a bit further. After being shot, the car drives at some speed up the road recklessly smashing into a parked car. I am guessing that when she was shot, her foot has gone heavy onto the accelerator and this is what we see with the car rushing down the road out of control. A subsequent photo shows the airbag deployed with a significant amount of blood on it. Clearly after she was shot and the car races off down the road, she is not in control of it.

What if I told you that in the 20 years of Policing I was engaged with, we were told repeatedly that it was for about 99% of cases unlawful to shoot at a moving vehicle. With the car racing off down the road and smashing into a parked car and thank goodness nobody else was hurt, we can now see why you do not shoot at a moving vehicle. The only time you might consider it is if you are trapped in an ally with no where to go, back against the wall and a car was driving towards you intent on squashing you against the wall.

So taken from this perspective, we might also conclude that guidelines have been breached.

The woman had no weapon (rubbish she "weaponised" her vehicle), there was no immediate threat to the life of the officer or any other person (until he shot her in her moving vehicle), and according to my training, guidelines had been breached in pulling the trigger. Interfering in a Police operation is also no justification to shoot someone, again, unless they pose an immediate threat to the life of the officers involved or others.

The facts are very clear. video doesn't lie, we can see what happened. The question is whether you think there was lawful justification for pulling the trigger and deploying lethal force.

I see no justification for lethal force in what I have seen. Based on the evidence before me, the officer does not appear to have had a lawful and justified reason for shooting the victim.

james l gardner's avatar

Anne applebaum bringing us The truth about the assault on our democracy.

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